Why the official crash time of Flight 93 cannot be true
(Updated research here)

By John Doe II, democraticunderground.com, October 1, 2004

The account of the 9/11-Commission about the last minutes of Flight 93 goes as follows:

At 9:57, the passengers assault began. […] One of the callers ended her message as follows: “Everyone’s running up to first class. I’ve got to go. Bye.”
The cockpit voice recorder captured the sounds of the passenger assault muffled by the intervening cockpit door. […]

In response, Jarrah immediately began to roll the airplane to the left and right, attempting to knock the passengers off balance. At 9:58:57, Jarrah told another hijacker in the cockpit to block the door. Jarrah continued to roll the airplane sharply left and right, but the assault continued. At 9:59:52, Jarrah changed tactics and pitched the nose of the airplane up and down to disrupt the assault. The recorder captured the sounds of loud thumps, crashes, shouts, and breaking glasses and plates. At 10:00:03, Jarrah stabilized the airplane...

[…] The sounds of the fighting continued outside the cockpit. Again, Jarrah pitched the nose of the cockpit up and down. At 10:00:26, a passenger in the background said, “In the cockpit. If we don’t we’ll die!” […] Jarrah stopped the violent manoeuvres at about 10:01:00 and said, “Allah is the greatest! Allah is the greatest!” He then asked another hijacker in the cockpit, “Is that it? I mean shall we put it down?” to which the other replies, “Yes, put it in it, and pull it down.”
The passengers continued their assault and at 10:02:23, a hijacker said, “Pull it down! Pull it down!”
(p. 13f)


The Report states concerning the time of impact:

“United 93 crashed in Pennsylvania at 10:03:11, 125 miles from Washington D.C. The precise crash time has been the subject of some dispute. The 10:03:11 impact time is supported by previous National Transportation Safety Board analysis and by evidence from the Commission staff’s analysis of radar, flight data recorder, the cockpit voice recorder, infrared satellite data, and air traffic control transmission”
(p. 30)


Surprisingly the Commission does not mention the seismic recording of 10:06:05 as impact time (Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University). Stickdog has written an excellent essay on this (see: 9/11 Commission: There must be 93 ways to blow your cover) and his question is still unanswered: “So if a 757 slamming into the ground at 580 mph, creating a world's record debris field and driving the remains of its passengers some 50 feet into the ground didn't manage to register even the tiniest seismic blip -- what happened in the same vicinity just three minutes later that DID cause a clear, noticeable, incontrovertible seismic spike?”.

Another issue that the Commission does not raise is why no family member of the victims that were finally allowed to listen to the cockpit recording in April 2002 heard any indication that the hijackers decided to crash the plane. Neither any article nor Jere Longman’s book “Among the Heroes” (that is based on interviews with family members) mention even the slightest hint that something like this was audible on the recording. The Commission does not make any attempt to explain the contradiction between what the family members heard and the official version now.
But it was a find by woody box that might be the watertight proof that the official timeline simply cannot be true.

Jere Longman based “Among the Heroes” on his interviews with family members. He quotes at length the conversation between Jeremy Glick and his wife Lyz:

Were they going to crash his plane into the World Trade Center? Jeremy wanted to know.
“No,” Lyz said, almost laughing. “They are not going there.”
Why? Jeremy asked.
One of the towers had just fallen.
“They knocked it down,” Lyz told him.
(p. 207)


The first Tower collapsed at 9:59:04 (Paul Thompson’s timeline). So obviously at this point of the conversation it is at least 9:59:15. According to the official timeline the battle at the cockpit was already taking place for two minutes and Jarrah had ordered to block the cockpit door.
Let’s see how the conversation between Jeremy and Lyz Glick continues:

They were problem-solving. Lyz asked Jeremy about the United pilots. Were they alive? He didn’t know. Had the real pilots said anything to the passengers over the public address system? No.
Did the hijackers have any automatic weapons? Lyz asked. Even a former judo champion like Jeremy would be no match for guns.
No guns, Jeremy said. “They have knives.”
How could people have gotten on the plane with knives and a bomb? He wanted to know. And then he made a joke that was typical Jeremy. “We just had breakfast and we have our butter knives.”
He said that they were taking a vote. There were three other guys as big as him. Was that a good idea? What should they do?
(p. 216)


What is the time at this moment of the conversation? I believe it’s a conservative guess to say 10:00:30. At the very moment while Jeremy Glick is discussing with his wife what to do, according to the official timeline Jarrah had twice pitched the nose of the airplane up and down and a passenger said “In the cockpit. If we don’t we’ll die!”
Is it believable that Glick was staying behind? Is it believable that he does not mention Jarrah’s pitching of the airplane’s nose? Is it believable that he discusses attacking the hijackers without telling his wife that the other passengers are doing this for more than three minutes already?
But let us see how the conversation continues:


Lyz shook as she talked to her husband, but when she heard that the hijackers didn’t have guns, she thought Jeremy would be okay. He could get stabbed, or get his hand slice, but he might not even feel it in the adrenaline rush. Getting stabbed wouldn’t kill him. The only hope is if they take these people over and get control of the plane.
“I think you need to do it,” Lyz told Jeremy.
“Okay,” he said. “Stay on te phone, I’ll be right back.”
There was a sound of conviction in his voice. Not anger, but a sense of purpose. He wanted to get home to wife and daughter.
They were going to jump on the hijackers and attack them, Jeremy said.
(p.216f)


Ok. What is the time now? Again I would say that 10:01:15 is a conservative guess. Now is the moment that “they” have taken the decision to attack. But according to the official timeline the battle has reached it’s peak already and Jarrah is asking if he should crash the plane.
Do the two timelines really go together? Why doesn’t Glick who clearly has the intention to attack the hijackers stay back? Why does Lyz Glick not remark the noise of the battle? (Glick was seated in row 11)
Let’s see how the conversation continues:


Put a picture of me and the baby in your head, Lyz said to Jeremy.
He went away, and it sounded as if he were talking to people.
(p. 217)


To say it’s now 10:01:30 is still very conservative. But Glick doesn’t rush to the cockpit to join the other passengers in their ongoing battle. He talks to other people. This is very understandable if one is planning an attack but not if this attack is already underway since four and a half minute (according to the official timeline).

Lyz Glick later recalls: I didn't hear any screaming. I didn't hear any noises. I didn't hear any commotion.
(NBC 09/30/02)
http://billstclair.com/911timeline/2002/msnbc090302.html


“Among the Heroes” continues:

“She couldn’t bear to listen and handed the phone to her father [Richard Makely]”
(p. 217)

According to the official timeline there are only 30 – 40 seconds left before the hijackers will start to pull down the airplane. And about 70 – 90 seconds before the plane crashes. So what does Lyz’ father hear?

"There was no noise for several minutes. And then there were screams, so I said - well, they're doing it. Another minute, it seemed like an eternity, but another minute, a minute and a half, and then there was another set of screams. It was muffled. Then there was nothing."
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=11314790&method=full
(ABC, 09/15/01; NBC, 07/30/02)


His observation is confirmed by officials:
“According to law-enforcement sources (who were listening in on the conversation), there was silence on the line. Then screams. Then silence. Then screams. Then nothing.”
(Newsweek, 09/13/01) http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3069645/

So this proves that it was possible to hear background noise through the phone (this is not surprising as Glick was seated in row 11 and certainly the battle at the cockpit door wasn’t a very calm one). But it also proves that neither Makely nor a law-enforcement official ’t heared any signs of a battle at this moment neither when Glick left his phone! So how can there have been a battle already going on since four and a half minutes at least?


As the exact time of the collapse of the WTC is beyond doubt we can come to the conclusion now that either the official timeline or the account of Jeremy Glick’s phone call can’t be true.
So did Lyz Glick consciously or unconsciously not tell the accurate truth?
This is basically impossible for the following reasons:

The New York state police patched into the phone call after Lyz Glicks’ mother had dialled 911. (p. 206). This was shortly after Glick called his wife (which happened around 9:30) (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 10/28/01)
http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20011028flt93mainstoryp7.asp
The State Police dispatcher is Robert Weingaertner (Times Union, 09/08/02) http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=57018&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=9/8/2002
“Captain Francis Christensen stood behind Weingaertner, firmly directing troopers who were flooding the dispatch room. Call Verizon and see if they can patch directly into Glick's call. Contact the FBI. Call the Federal Aviation Administration”. (Times Union, 09/08/02)


http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=57018&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=9/8/2002
“An emergency official arrived at the Makelys' home in Windham and took the phone, telling Weingaertner they were there. The call was disconnected. The tape would later be turned over to the FBI.”
(Times Union, 09/08/02)
http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=57018&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=9/8/2002

It exists a tape and a transcript of the phone call.
(Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 09/13/01)
(Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 10/20/01)

On September 12, 2001 Lyz Glick and other recipients of the phone call were interviewed by the FBI. On April 22, 2004 Lyz Glick was questioned once again by the FBI. (9/11 Commission Report, p. 457)

It is really hard to believe that Lyz Glick didn’t say the accurate truth and that the FBI and the Commission were too dumb to realize this although they had the recording and the transcript of the call in front of them.


Although the 9/11 Commission uses “Among the Heroes” as a source for their Report (e.g. p. 457) maybe the New York Times journalist Jere Longman was happy to invent the detail of the WTC collapse.
This again is refuted by the simple fact that Lyz Glick repeated this detail of the conversation with her husband several times:

Ms. GLICK: He began to ask me, 'Are they crashing planes into the World Trade Center?' I guess one of the other passengers had spoken to his mother, I believe it might have been, and that message might have been relayed. So he asked that. And then I am watching on the big screen television in front of me the World Trade Centers collapsing.
(ABC, 09/18/01)
(NBC, 08/20/02] http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3080114

(Observer, 02.12.01)
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/waronterrorism/story/0,1373,610355,00.html


And in a documentary film called “Flight 93: A Reconstruction” aired in the UK in 2002 Lyz Glick confirms that she told Jeremy that the South Tower had fallen.
In her words "It was valuable information for him to have".

So if the account of Glick’s phone call then is accurate the only possible explanation is that the official timeline can’t be true. That Flight 93 didn’t crash at 10:03:11. Considering that Glick’s phone call more likely postpones the beginning of the attack by about three minutes it seems reasonable to assume an impact time of 10:06. And surprisingly this is also what the seismic recordings indicate.

Is there the possibility that the Commission simply didn’t work accurately enough.
Their explanation for the impact time is:

“United 93 crashed in Pennsylvania at 10:03:11, 125 miles from Washington D.C. The precise crash time has been the subject of some dispute. The 10:03:11 impact time is supported by previous National Transportation Safety Board analysis and by evidence from the Commission staff’s analysis of radar, flight data recorder, the cockpit voice recorder, infrared satellite data, and air traffic control transmission”
(p. 30)


But how can the analysis of theses sources lead to a wrong impact time? It seems very reasonable to assume that the Commission most likely did a cover up. It’s seems simply a lie. As the government always insisted after 9/11 that the impact time was 10:03 and never dared to explain the difference with the seismic data it seems sensible to believe that the Commission changed the time favouring the wish of the government.
As far as I can see this might be the very first time that a lie of the Commission can be proven.
So the only question remains: Why does the Commission decided to cover up the last three minutes of Flight 93? Maybe the explanation is the same reason why the family members heard different things on the cockpit recording than the Commission and why the recordings are not publicly released…


This text is the result of the work of several researchers to whom I owe my special thanks: woody box, seatnineb, stickdog and k-robjoe.

(ed: see also (F) 93 Ways to blow your Cover , by Kelly Duke aka stickdog and WoodyBox : "Jeremy Glick and the collapsing south tower")