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Did Flt 11, Flt 93 and Flt 175 ' Survive' ?

portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/299172.shtml

http://www.politicalsoundoff.com/home/2004/10/9/did-flt-11-flt-93-and-flt-175-survive-.html

Update (10/10) : AA77, the mystery flight, also hit the Twin Towers (ABC, Jennings) and was followed by a "second plane" into the Pentagon (Irish BreakingNews)

Update (10/08) : For unexplained reasons, one of our private email contacts, of this portal, was cancelled, which happened a few minutes, after we posted this article.
(Please use the new address: nicohaupt2(at)yahoo.com )

In other developments:
As correspondent Dulce Decorum reported, Flight 11 and Flight 77 were not on the BTS database.
They were present for every day other than September 11 when they were NOT scheduled. And they never took off. And they were not cancelled.
Correspondent Gerard Holmgren published his findings and the BTS started getting questioned. Originally BTS had 18 entries for 911 Dulles - most people online who saved this, can confirm this. However, two days ago, the BTS records now list 19 records and the one at the very top is Flight 77.
Also, as thoughtcrimenews.com will reveal in a forthcoming story, "Flight93" did not exist until Sep11th. Most of the passengers got rescheduled from Flight91.

What other flights "replaced" Flight 93, 11 and 175?
In two new mini articles, WoodyBox argued, why radar observations clearly showed, that two different flights must have been in Pennsylvannia (93) and at the North Tower (11).

Special addition by ewing2001: According to the breaking news section, during Sep11th, also "Flight 175" survived the South Tower crash, at least officially "until" 12:42 PM EST

"Flight 93" survived the Pennsylvania crash -October 7

One day after the attacks, Air Controllers of Washington ARTC Center related to Matthew L. Wald from the New York Times how they spotted an unidentified aircraft that "crossed their radar screen", approaching Washington from the West. They believed it was UA 93...

"Flight 11" survived the North Tower crash

Flight 11 was spotted on the radar screens at 8:48 by New York ARTCC controllers:

At 8:48, while the controller was still trying to locate American 11, a New York Center manager provided the following report on a Command Center teleconference about American 11:

Manager, New York Center: Okay. This is New York Center. We’re watching the airplane. I also had conversation with American Airlines, and they ’ve told us that they believe that one of their stewardesses was stabbed and that there are people in the cockpit that have control of the aircraft, and that ’s all the information they have right now.

The New York Center controller and manager were unaware that American 11 had already crashed... (9/11 report, p.21)




"Flight 93" survived the Pennsylvania crash (cont.)

...In contrast, controllers at the Washington Air Route Traffic Control Center had much more warning that something was wrong. Those controllers, who handled American Airlines Flight 77, which dived into the Pentagon, knew about the hijacking of the first plane to crash, even before it hit the World Trade Center, those involved said. That was more than an hour before they watched another hijacked plane, United Flight 93, cross their radar screen on its way to the Pentagon... (Source: NY Times)

A quick look at an ARTCC map reveals that UA 93 never was in or near the airspace of Washington Center - according to the official story. Even when it crashed in Southern Pennsylvania, it was 50 miles out of this area.



"Flight 11" survived the North Tower crash (cont.)

...Flight 11 was reported at 9:21 by Washington ARTCC controllers as "heading towards Washington":

Instead, the NEADS air defenders heard renewed reports about a plane that no longer existed: American 11.
At 9:21, NEADS received a report from the FAA:
FAA: Military,Boston Center.I just had a report that American 11 is still in the air, and it ’s on its way towards —heading towards Washington.
NEADS: Okay.American 11 is still in the air?
FAA: Yes.
NEADS: On its way towards Washington?
FAA: That was another — it was evidently another aircraft that hit the tower. That ’s the latest report we have.
NEADS: Okay.
FAA: I ’m going to try to confirm an ID for you,but I would assume
he ’s somewhere over,uh,either New Jersey or somewhere further south.
NEADS: Okay. So American 11 isn ’t the hijack at all then,right?
FAA: No,he is a hijack.
NEADS: He —American 11 is a hijack?
FAA: Yes.
NEADS: And he ’s heading into Washington?
FAA: Yes. This could be a third aircraft.148

The mention of a “third aircraft ”was not a reference to American 77.There was confusion at that moment in the FAA.Two planes had struck the World Trade Center, and Boston Center had heard from FAA headquarters in Washington that American 11 was still airborne. We have been unable to identify the
source of this mistaken FAA information. 9/11 report, p.26


At 9:24, Langley fighters were ordered to intercept the southbound Flight 11 in the Baltimore area:

The NEADS technician who took this call from the FAA immediately passed the word to the mission crew commander, who reported to the NEADS battle commander:

Mission Crew Commander, NEADS: Okay, uh, American Airlines is still airborne. Eleven, the first guy, he's heading towards Washington. Okay? I think we need to scramble Langley right now. And I'm gonna take the fighters from Otis, try to chase this guy down if I can find him.149

After consulting with NEADS command, the crew commander issued the order at 9:23:"Okay . . . scramble Langley. Head them towards the Washington area.. . . if they're there then we'll run on them.. . .These guys are smart." That order was processed and transmitted to Langley Air Force Base at 9:24. Radar data show the Langley fighters airborne at 9:30. NEADS decided to keep the Otis fighters over New York. The heading of the Langley fighters was adjusted to send them to the Baltimore area. The mission crew commander explained to us that the purpose was to position the Langley fighters between the reported southbound American 11 and the nation's capital.150


The Air National Guard was informed by the FAA that Flight 11 was still airborne after the North Tower crash:

03:54:35 LT COLONEL DAWNE DESKINS, AIR NATIONAL GUARD

They told us that they showed the American Airlines Flight 11 was still airborne. So now, we're looking at this, well if, if an aircraft hit the World Trade Center, who was that?
http://www.billstclair.com/911timeline/2002/abcnews091102.html

General Myers knew of a hijacked plane, coming from the New York area and heading to Washington:

General Richard Myers, vice-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that before the crash into the Pentagon, military officials had been notified that another hijacked plane had been heading from the New York area to Washington.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0%2C1300%2C550486%2C00.html

So who wants to deny that Flight 11 was still airborne after the North Tower crash?


(Check out also WoodyBox' latest article, "How To Steal An Airliner *AND* Fake A Hijacking" -Pt.2)




"Flight 175" survived the South Tower crash

By Ewing2001 (From The Lost Wardrill (Pt.1-5))


(Screenshot of Irish Breaking News section, Sep11th, =european time +6 hours!)


Most 9/ 11 Truthseekers are not aware of the fact, that officially, Flight 175, DID NOT crash into the Twin Towers until 12:42 PM EST!!
Was it in reality a different flight and non-commercial aircraft, which was on the way to the South Tower?
And how did it really arrive?
From the official timeline on that day:

...8:14 AM:
The second "Flight 175" (two different wheels off-times, acc. to BTS!) takes off from Boston's Logan Airport, 16 minutes after the scheduled departure time.

8:37 AM:
Interestingly, Flight controllers ask the United Airlines Flight 175 pilots to look for the lost American Airlines Flight 11, about 10 miles to the south.
They respond that they can see it. They are told to keep away from it.

8:42 AM:
Flight 175 veers from its official course.

8:46 AM:
Flight 175 stops transmitting its transponder signal, but at “about the same time” as Flight 11 crash.

8:53 AM:
Reports about a hijack on "Flight 175" are increased, but officially they're all coming AFTER the transponders got shut down.

8:58 AM:
Another phone call. This time by Brian Sweeney.
No clear evidence, that it was Flight 175, which was on the way to New York.

Let's follow the timeline from the Online Breaking News (please note Irish Time= minus 6 hours )

Flight 175 officially "continued to fly" after 9:01 AM, because United Airlines didn't confirm the crash.
We have now to skip three hours. In between, a FOX reporter claims, he saw no windows at the plane, that was on its way to the South Tower, and it had a blue logo.
Another female witness on the streets, recorded at around the same time, by Indy TV project "Camera Planet", is shocked and yells to the camera, that the 'second plane' was "not AN american airline" (note the spelling: "an american airline", often misquoted as " american airlines"). The tape circulates on the internet for years, barely noticed.

11:52 AM United Airlines confirms plane lost



11:59 AM United Airlines "concerned about fourth plane".
In a statement, the airline also said it was deeply concerned about another
plane, Flight 175, a Boeing 767 bound from Boston to Los Angeles.

12:27 PM "110 people on two United Airlines flights"
United Airlines has now released information that 45 people were in the crashed airplane in Pittsburgh and a further 65 may have been "in the missing plane".

United 175, a Boeing 767, left Boston at 7:58 a.m. Eastern Time, bound for Los Angeles.
That aircraft carried 56 passengers, two pilots and seven flight attendants, the airline said.

Officially, UA175 is still missing at 12:27 PM

12:42 PM (1:42 PM EST, if Irish time is +5 hours)

In another "breaking news", the "location of second United Airlines plane" is still "unknown".
The last breaking news report from that day about UA175 said:

"...Two United Airlines jetliners crashed this morning, one in western Pennsylvania and the second at a location the airline did not immediately disclose.

American Airlines initially said its planes crashed into the twin towers but later said that was unconfirmed..."

No other news about the "missing plane" after 12:42 PM EST.

12:45 PM
50 aircraft still in American skies



(Source: airliners.net)

Flight 175: quite a mysterious flight ...

What’s so mysterious about Flight 175 ?
By John Doe II
October 10, 2004

Flight 175 was certainly the least mysterious of all four flights on 9/11. Literally billons of people saw it crash into the WTC. Flight 175 was the only plane that was to be seen live on television.
Also the last minute of this flight seem to contain no mystery:
At 8:40 happened the last transmission from UA 175. It stated that they had heard a suspicious transmission (most likely from Flight 11). Minutes later it turned southwest without clearance from air traffic control. At 8:47 it’s transponder code changed, and then changed again.
(Commission Report, p. 21)

Also Michael McCormick, the FAA's New York air traffic manager had nothing mysterious to tell in “a press conference in which air traffic controllers in New York, Boston, and Washington, D.C., made their first extensive public comments since the attacks.”
(Boston Globe, 8/13/02)

Mr. MIKE McCORMICK (New York Air Traffic Manager): We tracked that aircraft as it turned southbound and then back northeast-bound, back toward Manhattan. I assumed at that point that that target of that aircraft was, in fact, the World Trade Center.
ORR: Controllers tracked the hijacked jet for 11 agonizing and helpless minutes.
Mr. McCORMICK: For those 11 minutes, I knew, we knew, what was going to happen, and that was difficult.
(CBS, 8/13/02)

''Probably one of the most difficult moments in my life was the 11 minutes from the point I watched that aircraft when we first lost communication to the point that aircraft hit the World Trade Center.
(Boston Globe, 8/13/02)
(Ottawa Citizen, 8/13/03)

So contrary to Flight 77 which disappeared completely from the radar there was never a big problem with Flight 175. And the Commission Report states:
9:20 UA headquarters aware that Flight 175 had crashed into WTC (p. 32)
Unfortunately this is simply not true. To put it mildly.
While the confirmation that Flight 11, 93 and 77 crashed didn’t take long United Airlines seemed to have big problems to figure out what was going on with their Flight 175.
So in the ABC Special News Report from 11:00 – 12:00 United Airlines is quoted:


“United is also saying now that they are concerned about a further flight that apparently is still missing, flight 175. It is a Boeing 767. It was scheduled from Boston to Los Angeles. That flight apparently is still unaccounted for, according to officials from United.”
(ABC, 9/11/01 11:00 – 12:00)

So at least two hours after Flight 175 crashed into the WTC and being no mystery to the controllers UA still has no clue where his airplane is!


And things will become even stranger:
UA confirms that Flight 175 crashed but ….:
“United Airlines Flight 175: A Boeing 767 crashes. The flight was bound from Boston to Los Angeles. It carried 56 passengers, two pilots and seven flight attendants. The airline would not say where that plane crashed.”
(Seattle Times, 9/ 11/01)
(San Francisco Chronicle, 9/ 11/01)
(AP, 9/ 11/01)
(Atlanta Journal-Constitution, 9/ 11/01)
(ABC, 9/ 11/01 11:00 – 12:00)

Uups! Now they know that it crashed but not where or don’t want to say it??


So, excuse me dear Commissioners, United Airlines was certainly NOT aware at 9:20 that Flight 175 had crashed into the WTC.

The first one to mention that Flight 175 crashed is NBC minutes before noon. (Until 11:30 they only had three confirmed flights that had been involved in 9/11).
CNN states on September 12, 2001 that United Airlines confirmed at 11:59 that Flight 175 had crashed. (The other three flights had been already confirmed long before).
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/chronology.attack /

So, it took almost three hours to figure that out.


But the mystery hasn’t finished here:

The first guess which airplane had hit the second tower was not Flight 175 but surprise surprise:
Let’s switch on the television:


“So we believe that the two aircraft have flown into the Trade Towers, both belonged to American Airlines, and they had both been hijacked and there were 90 passengers and crew on the first plane and 60 passengers and crew on the second plane.”
ABC, 9/11/01 10:00

So, the first information was that AA 77 had hit the WTC (and not the Pentagon).
Two hours after the second attack:

“And Flight 77, a Boeing 757 offering from Washington Dulles to Los Angeles with 58 passengers and four flight attendants and two pilots, may--that--that--that aircraft is a little more uncertain. That is not a huge--it's a big aircraft, a 757, but we have--we're not certain whether that's the one that went into the Pentagon or whether it's one of the other aircraft that went into the Twin Trade Towers.”
ABC, 11:00

Three hours after the second attack:

“We have the two at the trade towers in New York City, we're not certain but we believe both of those are somehow connected to American Airlines but we're not sure of that, absolutely sure.”
ABC, 12.00

Four hours after the second attack the confusion reaches its climax:

LYNN SHERR: That--what--what you're seeing is the north tower. Behind it there's a second identical tower, as you know. That plane crashed right into it. All morning we have been told by American Airlines, among others, that that flight, that airplane, was actually American Airlines Flight 77 going out of Dulles to Los Angeles. We were told 58 passengers, four flight attendants, two pilots on that plane. It was hijacked at 9:03--I'm sorry, it was hijacked right after takeoff. Crashed into the tower at 9:03 AM.

JENNINGS: Let me stop you right there, Lynn, because I just--I have had different information so I'm going to rely on you here. You now believe the American Airlines Flight 77 which took off from Dulles on its way to Los Angeles, crashed into the Trade towers, not into the Pentagon?

SHERR: We were told that originally. What I'm about to tell you is the FBI is now saying that that's the one that went into the Pentagon. The FBI spokesperson is saying that the flight that went into World Trade Center tower number two, that's south tower, was, in fact United Airlines 175, a Boeing 767 that left Boston for LAX, departed at 7:58 AM this morning; 56 passengers, two pilots, seven flight attendants. This is confusing, I apologize. We are getting two different answers to our questions.
(ABC, 9/11/01 1 p.m. – 2 p.m.)


And although NBC reported “already” at 11:59 that Flight 175 crashed into the WTC this confusion between Flight 77 and 175 is not simply a problem of ABC. Just two further examples:


“We know for sure at least 92 people were aboard American Airlines Flight 11, a Boeing 676--excuse me, 767, en route from Boston to Los Angeles, which crashed into the building. Another 64 were aboard the second flight that crashed into the building, American Airlines Flight 77. That's a Boeing 757 that was en route from Dulles airport near Washington, DC, to Los Angeles.”
(National Public Radio, 9/11/01)

“A second aircraft that crashed into the Trade Center is said also to have been an American Airlines aircraft with 60 passengers. It was apparently flying from Washington Dulles bound for Los Angeles before being hijacked.”
(Air Transport Intelligence, 9/11/01)


Confusion might help explain a bit (although McCormick didn’t seem to be very confused about Flight 175) but how is it possible to confuse Flight 77 with Flight 175?
While Flight 175 never vanished completely from the radar Flight 77 switched off its transponder only at 8:56. Anybody ready to explain how Flight 77 could have managed to fly to New York within 7 minutes? Or how on earth can one possibly confound Flight 77 and Flight 175

Why was the most visible of all hijacked flights so mysterious?


From BTS database

(Source: Brad M's airgames.bravehost.com

9-11 Flight 175 Tail number = N612UA last at Logan on 16th Aug
was EXCLUSIVELY at JFK from 17th August to 10th September then suddenly
back at Logan on Sept 11th

Why was it moved on that day? It wasn't!
That flight, carefully modified the night before - took off from JFK and
flew into the WTC. Anyone know the distance and direction?
The fighters were supposed to look for Flight 175 over JFK
And funnily enough we have a security alert on a plane from JFK the
night before
http://www.the-movement.com/essays/lies.htm (AA 299 though)

Flight 93 Sept 11th =N591UA was in Logan Sept 10th as Flight 0507. This
plane became Flight 175 - changed its transponder code to flight 93 over
NJ and was shot down in Pittsburgh
What took off from newark was probably the white plane using flight 93s
transponder code?
We need to check if the last scheduled flights were cancelled.

N591UA leaves ( on the 10th) Logan for ORD at 7:30 gets to chicago (ORD) at 8:39 wheel on time. Leaves chiacgo as flight 642 at 10:43 for Newark, it shows a flight number and tail number, but no wheel on time or arrival time. It shows N591UA as flight 75 to SFO departing wheel off time at 19:40

( a 240 min departure delay and 70 min taxi out time) It arrives in San Fran at 22:07 wheel on time.

Then depart SFO ( as flight 78) at 23:15 wheel off time.

Flight 78 shows scheduled to arrive at 6:22, but shows no arrival, or wheel on time.



3 planes were sheduled to arrive before the 911 events, but the database shows no info of any planes arriving on the moring of the 11th from NWR

Flight 77 N624aa or N644aa?

N624aa was used for flt 77 most of end of Aug and start of Sept
N624aa was in Logan Sept 10th (Flight 181, 11:00)

Airliners.net has a photo at logan of N644AA but its not listed at all
on BTS either August or September at logan or Dulles.
Does not appear at Reagan Sept 2001

612UA departs from SFO to BOS Logan 13:44 W-off-time, gets to Logan at 21:50 W-on-Time. Does not show departing on the 10th . shecduled elapsed time 333 mins /60=5.55hrs 2 hours missing ?

13:44 to 21:50 = 7 hours and 6 mins

N334AA (11) was at Logan Sept 10th - Flight 197 17:10, not listed for
Sept 11th

Tail # N334AA arrived in SOF at 20:43 W-On-T on the 10th it left as flight 198 to BOS at 22:04 W-Off-T it had a scheduled elaspse time of 334 mins. It had a scheduled arrive time of 6:24, but does not show a wheel on time, arrival time or tail #.

8 planes (of 55) were shown to have arrived before the 911 events started. none show to actually arrive ( no arrival time, wheel on time or tail number)


Airliners.net has a photo at logan of N644AA but its not listed at all on
BTS either August or September at logan or Dulles.
Does not appear at Reagan Sept 2001
Can't find it anywhere?

N644AA does NOT appear at all, EVER, on the BTS database.

American Airlines has this really weird system of reporting their planes to the BTS. As far as I have been able to determine (thanks to a DU poster by the name of LoneStar) the code is as follows.

N (not to be confused with the N-number)
Fleet number (for example, 5BP)
The initial digit of the fleet number pertains to the make of the plane, for example, 5=757 3=737 0=airbus etc
I do not know the story with the letters just yet.
AA has a very high number of leased planes and will frequently sell of planes they own outright at a steep loss and then lease the very same plane back at a very high rate. I think this is some kind of corporate welfarekick-back or money laundering scheme. It makes absolutely NO fiscal sense whatsoever. Perhaps the letters pertain to intial ownership??
AA (perhaps as carrier code?seeing as how American Eagle planes appears to be reported as MQ??)

The AA fleet number for Flight 77 is 5BP.
Therefore, the plane reported to the BTS as N5BPAA is in reality, FAA number N644AA.
The AA fleet number for Flight 11 is 334.
Therefore the plane reported to the BTS as N334AA is in reality, FAA number N334AA.
Go figure.

N644AA (fleet #5BP) Imaged at National Airport a very few miles from where she was lost on September 11, 2001. In memory.
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=N644AA&distinct_entry=true

Brad mentioned some big delays on September 10,
and also the fact that the time that the plane was airborne
does not always tally with the time it takes to fly from point A to point B.
That, according to BTS stats, is a fact.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=11994&mesg_id=13615&page=



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=12490&mesg_id=13789&page=

But the problem that we consistently face is that CHARTERED flights are not listed.
Neither are those of small airlines but all our flights were on large BTS reporting carriers. At present, I am embroiled in a debate over this at DU. I mainatain that Colgan does business as US Airways and even has its planes painted in US Airways colors and it flight attendants wear US Airways uniforms. Colgan's flight numbers are US Airways 5000-5999. Now if you go to the BTS database and check Portland and Boston for September 11, you soon determine that there was NO Colgan air service on that day. The Colgan/US Airways flight numbers range is given as 5000-5999 by Colgan's website, and as 4800-4999 and 4950- 5099 by the US Airways website. This, to me, adds up to zero.

Furthermore, it does not appear to me at present that Colgan flew directly from Portland Jetport to Boston.
I think you have to connect at LaGuardia or Dulles (or maybe Philly or somewhere else. )
which makes it a five hour proposition.
American Eagle appears, from BTS stats, to be the only airline that Atta/Buhkari/Alomari could have boarded.
And since woody has a thing about gates, here is a schematic of the Portland Jetport.
http://www.portlandjetport.org/inside-terminal.asp
Note that Gate 11 is somewhat hidden from view.


This could have saved our hijackers some time.
http://www.portlandjetport.org/Shuttles.asp

And here is a map of the Portland area.
http://www.transportme.org/




Second aircraft hits Pentagon » NEWSFLASH
(*thx to TotalInfo and Brad M.)

archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/11/

4:05:16 PM

A second aircraft has crashed into the Pentagon building.

It is not known whether this plane was that which was hijacked from
Boston airport a short time ago, the fourth such plane to be used in
this major attack on the US.

Earlier, a small plane had slammed into the building and set it ablaze.

It is not yet possible to ascertain the number of dead or injured in
the various attacks in America's biggest cities.

All flights to and from the US have been grounded, as have all
transatlantic flights to and from Canada.